While driving my 98 540i home this evening I got a 'engine failsafe program ' warning and the car lost power with the rpm. BMW Automatic Transmission Fail-Safe or Limp., BMW trans warning, BMW transmission fail safe, BMW transmission failsafe, BMW. 740i Transmission fail safe message 7 Series - E38 (1995.
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As stated in title, I have the 'engine failsafe program' warning, along with DSC light on. Drove car home and parked. This morning checked battery and alternator voltages, all normal (battery connections are tight and clean).Decided to see if any codes are stored so started it up, and 'service engine soon' light came on, as well as the 'engine failsafe program' and DSC lights again. Stored codes are P0120 and P0221. (both of these codes are related to throttle position sensor and pedal)A little history: I have previously replaced the accelerator pedal and mounting plate about 7 years ago. I replaced the throttle body about 3 years ago. All parts were new, factory oem BMW.Before I do a parts swap, anyone know how I can narrow down if it is the pedal or throttle body?
I really have no symptoms, the car appears to drive fine. Sorry, I don't have any of the old parts.Follow up this afternoon.decided to fire it up again and look at the various sensor data, for kicks. Immediately upon start, no 'service engine soon' light, and no 'Engine Failsafe Program' on the MID. I hate intermittent problems. Again, like yesterday, there are no symptoms of a loss of power or rpms.
I went for a drive and late afternoon lunch (just got back), car drives normally, no issues, even did a couple full throttle runs up to 60mph. Put about 12 miles on the car.Got home, and decided to go ahead and clear the two stored DTCs: P0120 and P0221.I will return to this thread, if there are any further developments.If anyone has anything further to add, feel free.Thanks. Recurred this evening.finishing a 25 mile drive, and as I pull into a parking lot.the 'engine failsafe program' shows up, along with the chime noise. Parked and scan for codes.same ones P0120 and P0221. On the return trip, the warning did not show upon start up, nor did it show during the return 25 mile trip home.
Codes are hard set, and I will just leave them in memory for now.Interesting the first time the warning showed up I was parked, and second time I was crawling through a parking lot. My car is behaving the same as yours, but I have no CEL and no OBD codes. Last time I took it to the shop and they pulled some BMW specific codes. A shop might be able to do that for you if you don't have the BMW level software.The first time, my car bonged as I made a left on a offramp off the freeway and died 1/4 mile later coming down a hill.The second time was last night, it gave me a bong accelerating onto the freeway. Throttle pedal quit responding. Was running at about 1200rpm and shaking badly.If you can't read the BMW level codes you'll probably need a shop's help. You could just swap & pray (but I do think the throttle pedal needs to be programmed/learned - but I don't know if you can do that at home or if you need the software).Scott.
Thanks Scott. Yes, to narrow down whether it is the throttle body or the gas pedal, requires more sophisticated software than an OBDII code reader. My stored codes just tell me it is one of the two.In my past instances, I had uneven idle (and I forget the exact code(s)), and ended up replacing the gas pedal. The other time, I had stalling, and my local shop had the BMW specific software to determine it was the throttle body.this was about three years ago.What makes this one strange, is I have no symptoms, other than the codes and warning on the dash.and that fact it is fleeting and does not remain for more than a minute or two.
Then the warnings disappear. Hey, wanted to give you guys a quick follow up on the diagnosis of my car. Unfortunately my local indy's are pretty booked up this week, so I dropped it off at BMW Seattle, where I have a good relationship with one of the service writers, Alex.
Even though I was told it would be over a week to fit me in by another guy, Alex got me in right away;). He also set me up with a brand new 428i gran coupe in dark blue, for a loaner.pretty sweet.Okay, on to the bad news.the P codes I read were apparently a false lead. When they hooked up the BMW computer, they said they found different BMW specific codes related to the following: thermostat (operation likely slow), aux cooling fan errors, and steering angle sensor errors.With the exception of the thermostat which was replaced one year ago, the other parts are original to the car.
I guess this is a good case to show where having IPNA software would be the superior to a standard OBDII code reader. If I had followed down that rabbit trail and replaced my gas pedal and throttle body, I might still have the same issues.Quote was a bit over $2k.but that is before BMWCCA discounts and whatever else he can do for me.:) Not a great outcome, but I know BMW Seattle does good work, and thankfully, I am having a couple of very good months at my medical sales job, so I can handle this unexpected bill.Oh, and that 428 is a pretty nice car.steering is far superior to the recirc ball steering in the 540. And flipping through the suspension/engine programming gives immediate feedback to the changes in settings. Even though that 240hp 4 cylinder with 8 speed transmission is supposed to be faster 0-60 than my 540, it lacks the immediacy of the 540 when you punch it on an on ramp. I played with the flippy paddles in manual mode last night.it sucks, as it is still a 'slush box', it is okay, for what it is.but I am comparing it to the single clutch F1 'superfast' transmission on my 430 Scuderia.;). It's really strange that they're coming up with completely different codes. The BMW codes can give more detail than generic OBD, but they shouldn't point to completely different issues.
Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I think a steering sensor error would trigger a DSC warning light.If it were me, I'd be wanting to check it myself with either a non-generic scan tool (eg Peake) or INPA etc.If you see the thread title, and my first post.I was getting a DSC light.but strange they come on together, don't you think? Seem like disparate problems, almost like phantom warnings. But the dealer is confident their analysis is correct. I will have my fingers crossed when I pick it up, that these issues are resolved. But if I was doing the work myself, I might skip the steering wheel sensor repair, just to see if that came back again.or was some how triggered, based on the other errors.crazier stuff has happened.
Just seems strange these errors come up at the same time.But my time is limited, I need my car back and hate running back and forth to shops.I'm single and my GF lives quite a ways from me, so hitching a ride is not easy. Picked up the car last night from BMW Seattle.the invoice gives considerably more narrative from the technician on steps taken to confirm the various issues. Included descriptions of what was read out by their diagnostic computer, as well as steps for confirmation.
For example, on the aux radiator fan, he remotely triggered the aux fan to turn on.it would not. He confirmed both power and signal was present to the fan. After reading trouble codes for the steering angle sensor, read the actual read outs, while turning the wheel to confirm readings did not match wheel position.In retrospect, I have not heard the aux fan turn on at all in the past few months.yet thought nothing of it, since the car never overheated. Temp gauge never moved out of normal range (though I know that gauge is damped, and only reads high when the car is severely overheating.
The first time the 'engine failsafe program' chime came on, the car had been sitting idling for about 7 or 8 minutes in a parking lot. The third time, it triggered, I had come off the freeway only two or three minutes prior, and was crawling in traffic through a parking lot.so kinda of makes sense. Sounds good.Still quite strange that your code reader gave completely different codes.
Maybe time for a new code reader?Dealer saw the same P codes, they were still stored in the Motronic.The dealer says that in this case, there is no P code that an OBDII scanner will read for a failed aux radiator fan. Nor will it read a hinky thermostat, that by their estimate was 'working' but appeared to be slow in responding to opening and closing properly (I believe there is a P code for failed or stuck thermostat). Nor will it produce a P code for a steering angle sensor.In other words, my symptoms had not gotten bad enough to cause the car to over heat, it was just running outside of the normal specs and the Motronic was warning and preventing engine damage by running in failsafe mode.The weird part is why the Motronic was putting out codes for the gas pedal and throttle body. Just an instance where an OBDII scanner is of no help, gotta have IPNA or some other BMW specific software. Both of my scanners read the same codes.First time for me to have Pcodes that don't match up with true fault. I have owned one scanner for 10 years (laptop based, and added a Bluetooth one recently for Iphone), and have correctly diagnosed all sorts of faults on my BMW, an F355 Ferrari I used to own, a 2007 Tundra, and a bunch of other Ferraris and misc friends cars I have worked on.
Been a huge help with misfire codes (usually a coil), bad pre cat O2 sensors, bad catalysts, etc. My car is behaving the same as yours, but I have no CEL and no OBD codes. Last time I took it to the shop and they pulled some BMW specific codes. A shop might be able to do that for you if you don't have the BMW level software.The first time, my car bonged as I made a left on a offramp off the freeway and died 1/4 mile later coming down a hill.The second time was last night, it gave me a bong accelerating onto the freeway. Throttle pedal quit responding. Was running at about 1200rpm and shaking badly.If you can't read the BMW level codes you'll probably need a shop's help. You could just swap & pray (but I do think the throttle pedal needs to be programmed/learned - but I don't know if you can do that at home or if you need the software).ScottScott,My most recent codes and warnings did not have any corresponding symptoms.car drove normally.I forgot to mention I had similar symptoms to what you describe, in previous instances, WITH an 'service engine soon' light.I forgot what the Pcode was, but it was for something with the pedal or throttle body (or both).
I took it to a trusted local indy near my house and they had some BMW specific software and correctly identified it was the throttle body.this was about three years ago. Never recurred after their fix.but man, the stalling and poor responding gas pedal was disconcerting. So it has been 8 days and a bit over 1000 miles since the repairs at BMW Seattle. No further issues, no warnings, SES light or DSC light. Car drives terrifically, and spent over 6 hours stuck in crawling traffic last week after a landslide blocked I-5 northbound out of Portland, OR.
With the issues I was having previously, I dread to think of the overheating I would have had!BTW, the new aux fan is much quieter than the previous one, even when the car was new. And I now notice it running more often (coming on whenever I come to a stop or am parked).I swear it has not worked since summer.which is weird the car can run with a failed aux fan and not overheat.I also notice my car takes a few minutes longer to warm up in the morning.
Both the gauge takes an extra two or three minutes to come up to temp, as well as for the heat to automatically come on. My thermostat was replaced, as it was throwing BMW specific codes for not opening and closing correctly. For future thoughtsGet your self a Creator 310 scanner off a amazon. I paid 64$ on prime It will communicate with all the body modulesPoint and case:I have had a Lean fault on bank 1 and sometimes 2 for years.
Ive known about that, snap on scanner talks to the engine management systems with ease. BUTwhat i did find out after using the creator scanner. Is that i had a passenger occupancy fault, a Heater control valve fault. A head rest obstruction fault. A lost of single steering angle fault.
A radio single input fault. A light bulb fault.anyway. You require a specific scan tool to talk to a BMWand for the AUX fan. I did mine off amazon for less then 200$.
Thanks for the tip, I think having that scanner would be useful, if only to confirm what the service tech is telling me is wrong. While I am a decent 'parts swapper' for easy stuff.I really don't have the time or inclination for replacing the aux fan.easier /fasterfor me to pay someone.;) But easier stuff like spark plugs, coils, gas pedal, timing chain tensioner, hoses, engine and trans mounts, and suspension bits, I've done those. Having the scanner would at least allow me to better assess of the job is within my capabilities, or something to farm out to a qualified independent BMW specialist or the dealer.Thank you again! Correction: the part number I put earlier was wrong. Correct 6 pin connector #0 got it for $4 with red shopping:thumbup: (connector only without wiring) from ECS Tuning.ALSO AN UPDATE: So thought it would be good the next morning so I go to cold crank it and did the same dang think:cry:(throttle jumped weird, Fail safe mode. Etc.) Did some more digging on the connector and notice when it's plugged in, it was only in about 60%.
So I took off the small housing around the 6 pin and plugged in. I noticed it went in more.
I little more than normal:confused. The 6 pin is in 100% now and the throttle was normal.
Cold cranked it this morning and all is normal (thank the lord):freakdanc. So I have it plugged in without the small housing and seems to be in real good and snug.
Waiting for my new connector to come in the mail them see how that one looks.Seems like BMW does this on purpose to get you down the road on maintenance. Say its the throttle body thats wrong knowing they would get you for new throttle body full cost replace and not a simple connector that just needs to be plugged in a little bit more.:spank:Hope this helps my peoples.
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